Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

24Knews main news & discussion threads
Forum rules
Please read: 24Knews Forum Rules

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:05 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

Watch on youtube.com
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:22 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

Watch on youtube.com
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:53 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows XP Windows XP  Screen Resolution: 1024 x 600 1024 x 600

If the rebels are so innocent why have they continually hindered crash investigators at the site? why make it so difficult to examine the debris and collect the bodies in a dignified manner?

the fact of the matter is that this is an airliner shot down in rebel territory by the rebels and no amount of russian state propaganda will persuade me otherwise

look at the evidence pointing to the rebels, its mounting up......

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-crash- ... zuwws.html
User avatar
triple-agent
Half Krug Member
Half Krug Member
Progress to next rank:
70.7%
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:20 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:58 am » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

The media is doing a great job at showing why this was the rebels. When it come down to it they didn't have the ability or the equipment to actually do it, they couldn't have changed the flight plan and had zero to gain from it.

Don't expect the western media to show you the evidence that proves they didn't do it, the US are highly skilled at manipulating media and feeding them stuff at the right points. They did screw up with the initial youtube video of the supposed terrorists discussing the downing of MH17 in that it was actually uploaded to youtube before the plane went down and was subsequently hastily removed. That proves that there was prior knowledge that it was going to happen and it wasn't them IMO.

From the article you posted above;

On June 29 the separatists in eastern Ukraine announced to Russian media they have gained access to a BUK-M1 land-air missile system – a system capable of hitting a plane at MH17’s altitude.

They claimed to have captured it from a Ukrainian army base.

However, the base had only contained one BUK-M1 which had been disabled on March 3, and had no missiles, Mr Nayda said. The remains of that launcher were still on the base.


Also to operate a BUK-M1 you need a target acquisition radar capability which the rebels didn't have. It is actually a highly sophisticated weapon system which requires multiple systems in place to make it work - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:10 am » Firefox 30.0 Firefox 30.0  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1366 x 768 1366 x 768

Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:58 am wrote:The media is doing a great job at showing why this was the rebels. When it come down to it they didn't have the ability or the equipment to actually do it, they couldn't have changed the flight plan and had zero to gain from it.

Don't expect the western media to show you the evidence that proves they didn't do it, the US are highly skilled at manipulating media and feeding them stuff at the right points. They did screw up with the initial youtube video of the supposed terrorists discussing the downing of MH17 in that it was actually uploaded to youtube before the plane went down and was subsequently hastily removed. That proves that there was prior knowledge that it was going to happen and it wasn't them IMO.

From the article you posted above;

On June 29 the separatists in eastern Ukraine announced to Russian media they have gained access to a BUK-M1 land-air missile system – a system capable of hitting a plane at MH17’s altitude.

They claimed to have captured it from a Ukrainian army base.

However, the base had only contained one BUK-M1 which had been disabled on March 3, and had no missiles, Mr Nayda said. The remains of that launcher were still on the base.


Also to operate a BUK-M1 you need a target acquisition radar capability which the rebels didn't have.



why was that launcher tracked back to Russia?

they did it with Russian help - its as simple as that
User avatar
triple-agent
Half Krug Member
Half Krug Member
Progress to next rank:
70.7%
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:20 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:21 am » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

triple-agent » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:10 am wrote:why was that launcher tracked back to Russia?

they did it with Russian help - its as simple as that

The launcher transported was the one they captured, it didn't have the ability to work. There would be definitive proof if this had been done by them and there isn't just loads of PR and spin. Russia wouldn't be so stupid to do something like this.

We shouldn't jump to conclusions on this as both sides will be doing all they can to show it wasn't them. We will probably never know the truth, but judging from the situation and what each side has to gain or lose it points to the US being the perpetrators IMO.
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:32 am » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? — Paul Craig Roberts

Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing the facts that we do have.

One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it.

Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.

The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.

Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.

One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence...


...One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile system by deploying it in a conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer, and another is that the missile system did have an intended use.

What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that the ultra-nationalist extremists intended to bring down Putin’s presidential airliner and confused the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner...
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Stun Lee and Win » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:29 pm » Google Chrome 34.0.184 Google Chrome 34.0.184  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1080 1920 x 1080

I like PCR and read his stuff regularly but I do think he is rather protesting too much. Earlier on in the conflict, he repeatedly and vehemently stated that there were no Russian special forces/mercenaries operating in the area....
I just do not buy the fact that a. Putin would willingly fly over Ukrainian airspace, much less the Novorussian area of Ukraine and b. that they would inform the Ukrainians of this.
I also find it entirely logical that the Ukrainians would have powerful anti-aircraft systems in range of the area due to the Russian airforce just a few miles away and the threat of intervention.

The most likely explanation is that the rebels shot the plane down thinking it a military transport.
User avatar
Stun Lee and Win
Silver Eagle Member
Silver Eagle Member
Progress to next rank:
83.3%
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:56 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

The problem is that the rebels don't have the capability to do so IMO.

What about this video, which kind of proves that those that did it knew in advance that they needed to frame the rebels?

Watch on youtube.com
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:28 pm » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows XP Windows XP  Screen Resolution: 1024 x 600 1024 x 600

Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:56 pm wrote:The problem is that the rebels don't have the capability to do so IMO.


of course they do, with russian help

here is another video the russians can try and discredit referring to the rebels subsequent cover-up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... er-up.html
User avatar
triple-agent
Half Krug Member
Half Krug Member
Progress to next rank:
70.7%
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:20 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:29 pm » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

All that those videos show is that they have surprisingly good mobile coverage.

I think it is a bit early to blame anyone.
If Kiev is innocent, then why won't they agree to a cease-fire while the investigation is going on - I mean it would be bad if they shelled the area by mistake and destroyed evidence.

By the way those who have arrived at the scene are only observers - the forensic people are still in Kiev and won't arrive until this evening.
User avatar
Hooloovoo
Silver Eagle Member
Silver Eagle Member
Progress to next rank:
66%
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:48 pm » Safari Mobile 7.0 Safari Mobile 7.0  iPad iPad  Screen Resolution: 768 x 1024 768 x 1024

Forensics on the scene isn't going to be able to tell anything, it would be interesting to find out the air traffic recordings as to why they were orderd to change course and fly at lower height. I guess that evidence won't come out though as it was quickly confiscated by Kiev - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-1 ... alaysian-j

Yesterday, The BBC reported at 15:29: "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby warpig » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:24 pm » Google Chrome 34.0.184 Google Chrome 34.0.184  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

Certainly some (if not most) pro Russian separatists are Russian soldiers. Any soldier with a balaclava over their face is a Russian soldier, without a shadow of a doubt. They absolutely have the capability to operate a SAM.

Pixel8r » 20 Jul 2014 13:56 wrote:The problem is that the rebels don't have the capability to do so IMO.
"There can be no other criterion, no other standard than gold. Yes, gold which never changes, which can be turned into ingots bars, coins, which has no nationality and which is eternally and universally accepted as the unalterable fiduciary value par excellence"

"Betting against gold is the same as betting on governments. He who bets on governments and government money, bets against 6,000 years of recorded human history."

Charles de Gaulle
User avatar
warpig
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster
Progress to next rank:
15.1%
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46 am

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby wee Jinky » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:29 pm » Safari 4.0 Safari 4.0  Android Android  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

I have read that the flight took a more northern route than previous flights which put it in the danger zone,
if so then it would have been directed there by Kiev atc which would question the motives of the western side.
Regardless of whether it was the west or east or if it was deliberate or just a mistake it saddens me that so many innocents
have lost their lives.Add in the shocking events in Gaza this week and its been another sad week for humanity.
User avatar
wee Jinky
Quarter Krug Member
Quarter Krug Member
Progress to next rank:
99.6%
 
Posts: 946
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:31 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

warpig » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:24 pm wrote:Certainly some (if not most) pro Russian separatists are Russian soldiers. Any soldier with a balaclava over their face is a Russian soldier, without a shadow of a doubt. They absolutely have the capability to operate a SAM.

But the question is if they had all the equipment required to fire a Buk missile as they need the radar system to identify the targets. Ukraine did as they had numerous systems in place.

No one is talking about the fact that the "evidence" of the rebels talking about the downing of the plane was actually released on youtube before it happened and was then taken down. To me that proves that it wasn't the rebels and they where being setup by Ukraine, unless the Russian propaganda bureau has a time machine. Also why was the air traffic radio contact confiscated immediately by the secret service?
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby warpig » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:38 pm » Google Chrome 34.0.184 Google Chrome 34.0.184  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

Probably so it didn't fall in to the hands of the Russians. How do you know that video was posted before it happened? The Russian separatists (Russians) have been shooting down planes in this conflict for ages, they have radar...

Here's footage or Russian separatists shooting down a Ukrainian AH-30 last month.

Watch on youtube.com


Pixel8r » 20 Jul 2014 21:31 wrote:But the question is if they had all the equipment required to fire a Buk missile as they need the radar system to identify the targets. Ukraine did as they had numerous systems in place.

No one is talking about the fact that the "evidence" of the rebels talking about the downing of the plane was actually released on youtube before it happened and was then taken down. To me that proves that it wasn't the rebels and they where being setup by Ukraine, unless the Russian propaganda bureau has a time machine. Also why was the air traffic radio contact confiscated immediately by the secret service?
"There can be no other criterion, no other standard than gold. Yes, gold which never changes, which can be turned into ingots bars, coins, which has no nationality and which is eternally and universally accepted as the unalterable fiduciary value par excellence"

"Betting against gold is the same as betting on governments. He who bets on governments and government money, bets against 6,000 years of recorded human history."

Charles de Gaulle
User avatar
warpig
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster
Progress to next rank:
15.1%
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46 am

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:35 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

warpig » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:38 pm wrote:Probably so it didn't fall in to the hands of the Russians.

So why hasn't it been released then, it would show exactly why the course and height was changed?

warpig » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:38 pm wrote:How do you know that video was posted before it happened?

Watch this video and it explains all. Basically the video was uploaded to YouTube before the crash happened, which can be seen by the youtube timestamp. They quickly realised their mistake and deleted it, but it was held in the cache for all to see.

If this video was uploaded before the crash it shows that the rebels were being framed and the uploader had prior knowledge that the jet was about to be shot down. Another version of the video was still used to try and implicate the rebels almost immediately after the crash and was picked up by all the mainstream western media, none have dug any deeper.

Watch on youtube.com
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:45 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

timestamp theory debugged

Conclusions

In fact, take any youtube file, you will find that the encoded date timestamp is 24 hours behind the upload date, therefore the "timestamp evidence" doesn't prove anything. Reasons? Possiblly some date/time API where the day of the month is in the ranges of (0,30) and an off-by-one error in the code at youtube that sets the encoded date.

Update & clarification: The "creation_time" in the metadata on the screenshot is the same data that has been returned by the mediainfo command under "Encoded date". It is the same thing. It is the same data under different labels. To show this, I have uploaded the infowars video to Rghost.com, and that too shows a creation_time before the crash, 24 hours before from the video's upload date: http://rghost.net/private/56993694/c319 ... adb24ebfb8


https://gist.github.com/klaufir/d1e694c064322a7fbc15
User avatar
triple-agent
Half Krug Member
Half Krug Member
Progress to next rank:
70.7%
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:20 pm

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:05 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

Thanks for the info TA that explains the timestamp issue, google should get their sh*t together. I did think it was an obvious mistake which probably wouldn't have been made.

Why would master tactician Putin make the mistake of shooting down a commercial airliner, it seems completely out of character to me. It also seems to me this is exactly the sort of false flag the US would generate. Will we ever know what really happened here? There would be multiple undeniable proofs available but nothing seems to be coming forward.
"Money is Gold, and nothing else"
(As John Pierpont Morgan once stated under oath before the USCongress and the Pujo Commission in 1912)
User avatar
Pixel8r
Founder
Founder
Rhodium Rocket
Rhodium Rocket
 
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby warpig » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:17 am » Google Chrome 34.0.184 Google Chrome 34.0.184  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

It's exactly as you said, a mistake. The US don't need justification for going in to the Ukraine, they have the "Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances," no false flag needed.
"There can be no other criterion, no other standard than gold. Yes, gold which never changes, which can be turned into ingots bars, coins, which has no nationality and which is eternally and universally accepted as the unalterable fiduciary value par excellence"

"Betting against gold is the same as betting on governments. He who bets on governments and government money, bets against 6,000 years of recorded human history."

Charles de Gaulle
User avatar
warpig
Platinum Poster
Platinum Poster
Progress to next rank:
15.1%
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46 am

PreviousNext

Return to Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


cron