Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:28 pm » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

The New York Times says defence experts have concluded damage to MH17 - including shrapnel holes and blistered paint on a panel of the destroyed plane's exterior - "is consistent with the effects of a fragmenting warhead carried by an SA-11 missile, known in Russian as a Buk".

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world ... -news&_r=2
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:19 pm » Safari Mobile 7.0 Safari Mobile 7.0  iPad iPad  Screen Resolution: 768 x 1024 768 x 1024

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:30 pm » Firefox 30.0 Firefox 30.0  Windows Seven 64 bits Windows Seven 64 bits  Screen Resolution: 1366 x 768 1366 x 768



purely an opinion piece - no new evidence to discuss?
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:46 pm » Safari 7.0.4 Safari 7.0.4  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050 1680 x 1050

triple-agent » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:30 pm wrote:purely an opinion piece - no new evidence to discuss?

Yep but a valid opinion which kind of resonates with my own.
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:47 pm » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

The sattelite pictures from the Russian Defence Ministry with english translation:

http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/ECD62987D4816CA344257D1D00251C76

and a nice short video:

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:16 pm » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

This just in:
US intelligence: No link to Russia in Malaysia plane downing

Link:

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/US-to-present-intelligence-data-on-plane-crash-5638522.php

Earlier claims just lies then.
I like the part where they say:
The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public by the Ukrainian government
:doh:

US had a sattellite in the area (confirmed by the Russians) - so why not release those images instead of commenting on Youtube videos?
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:43 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

Hooloovoo wrote:This just in:
US intelligence: No link to Russia in Malaysia plane downing

Link:

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/US-to-present-intelligence-data-on-plane-crash-5638522.php

Earlier claims just lies then.
I like the part where they say:
The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public by the Ukrainian government
:doh:

US had a sattellite in the area (confirmed by the Russians) - so why not release those images instead of commenting on Youtube videos?


no link or no direct link?

Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for “creating the conditions” that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement


White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said the U.S. was still working to determine whether the missile launch had a “direct link” to Russia, including whether there were Russians on the ground during the attack and the degree to which Russians may have trained the separatists to launch such a strike.

“We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to these separatists, the arms they provided to these separatists, the training they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine,” Rhodes said in an interview with CNN.


http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evid ... 17-attack/

re. the intercepted phone conversations.....

But in a briefing with reporters, the officials continued to build the Obama administration’s case of Russian complicity in a shoot-down by separatists. The officials provided intelligence material on the path of the missile, voiceprint analysis of separatists discussing bringing down a plane, shrapnel markings on the aircraft, and material from social-media sites to back administration claims.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:24 am » Safari Mobile 7.0 Safari Mobile 7.0  iPad iPad  Screen Resolution: 768 x 1024 768 x 1024

The Americans obviously had their satellites pointed Ukraine when it happened, the fact that they are not releasing clear satellite proof and are presenting social media and audio recordings is very telling.

Why do you think they are not showing clear evidence from their satellites?
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:46 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

Could easily be a very simple photoshop job.

Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Was a Russian-made missile really parked in this quiet square?

Image

It is a photograph that could play a crucial role in proving the deadliest of deeds. Or else it could be dismissed as a fake, nothing more than crude propaganda.

At the weekend, Ukraine’s security services (SBU) released photographs and videos it said proved that Russian-made BUK-M1 surface-to-air missile systems were inside the rebel-held area shortly before Malaysian Airlines MH17 crashed to the ground.

Among the images, said to have been taken on the day of the tragedy, was one of a missile system, either parked or passing through the rebel-controlled town of Torez, barely five miles from where Boeing 777 tore into fields of wheat and sunflowers. According to Vitaliy Nayda, head of the SBU’s counterintelligence unit, the image was “evidence” of Russia’s involvement.

But on Tuesday, when The Independent visited the site where the image was taken and showed it to local people, they claimed they had seen no such missile truck and dismissed the image as hoax. “All the Ukrainian media is lying,” said one man, Andrei Sushparnov. “We have no missiles. If we did, would the Ukrainians be bombing our cities?”
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:43 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

Pixel8r wrote:The Americans obviously had their satellites pointed Ukraine when it happened


and you know this how?

why is it the 'troofers' have only supplied conjecture as their proof, whilst there is at least 6 different sources of material showing the rebels had a hand in this.

how do you explain the SSU radio intercepts?, the google cache confirmation of rebel tweets?, the fact Russian state tv reported this as the rebels when it was thought to be a Ukrainian plane?, the Janes expert analysis of the damage to the plane being consistent with a BUK?, the numerous pictures of a BUK traveling back to Russia?

Troofers base their opinion on well, opinion
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:43 am wrote:
Pixel8r wrote:The Americans obviously had their satellites pointed Ukraine when it happened


and you know this how?

MH17: US satellites tracked missile's path to airliner

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-us-sat ... z38HaPR7Wd
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:15 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 am wrote:
triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:43 am wrote:
Pixel8r wrote:The Americans obviously had their satellites pointed Ukraine when it happened


and you know this how?

MH17: US satellites tracked missile's path to airliner

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-us-sat ... z38HaPR7Wd


OK - thanks

one can only assume they're keeping the footage for security reasons.

what about the questions i posed re. the numerous evidence that points to the rebels?
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:31 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200


Security would be better served by releasing the information would it not? It is well known the sort of satellite technology they have.

I am not ready to jump to any conclusion as to who did it, hope that the black boxes will reveal the answers. Even if the rebels did fire it there would still be many questions about why the plane was redirected over a war zone. The US say they didn't know that the rebels had the capability to shoot down from that height, which sounds like bollocks to me as their technology and intelligence is much more advanced than they like to let on.
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:03 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:07 am » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

The aviations experts from ICAO hasn't arrived at the scene yet.
Maybe they have something better to do?
http://ria.ru/world/20140723/1017206187.html
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:08 am » Firefox 31.0 Firefox 31.0  Windows Vista Windows Vista  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:31 am wrote:
Security would be better served by releasing the information would it not? It is well known the sort of satellite technology they have.

I am not ready to jump to any conclusion as to who did it, hope that the black boxes will reveal the answers. Even if the rebels did fire it there would still be many questions about why the plane was redirected over a war zone. The US say they didn't know that the rebels had the capability to shoot down from that height, which sounds like bollocks to me as their technology and intelligence is much more advanced than they like to let on.


voiceprint analysis of the intercepts says otherwise
russian tv report now 'crap' because it doesn't fit your theory
Janes expert says no - not air to air
there's a lot of evidence that says the BUK was sent to russia

not to mention the google cache catch
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:20 am » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

[/quote]

what about the questions i posed re. the numerous evidence that points to the rebels?[/quote]

You meen Europe comitting financial suicide or NATO provoking Nuclear warfare based on tweets and Youtube videos.

Why did Ukraine deploy BUK's on the very same day (see sattellite photos from previous post), when the rebels don't have an airforce?

Didn't they show the press conference from the Russian defence ministry in the UK?
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:46 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

Hooloovoo » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:The aviations experts from ICAO hasn't arrived at the scene yet.
Maybe they have something better to do?
http://ria.ru/world/20140723/1017206187.html

Probably know they will be targets for stray bombs from Ukraine and are keeping their heads down.
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 am » Safari 7.0.5 Safari 7.0.5  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1920 x 1200 1920 x 1200

triple-agent » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:08 pm wrote:voiceprint analysis of the intercepts says otherwise
russian tv report now 'crap' because it doesn't fit your theory
Janes expert says no - not air to air
there's a lot of evidence that says the BUK was sent to russia

not to mention the google cache catch

The US and Brits secret service have ways of manipulating all sorts of internet data and social media, so nothing can be trusted. Voiceprint analysis done by who I doubt an independent source.

Not my theory just stating what I see, that we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on the flaky evidence that has been supplied so far. I actually haven't made up my mind yet at all and am open to any possibility, unlike yourself. Based on past events, Iraq WMD, that leads me to doubt anything that comes out of US intelligence.

There is also lots of evidence of Ukraine deploying BUK the day ahead of the disaster. All I am trying to do is keep an open mind and not jump to any conclusions, as the western controlled media has done.
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Re: Shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17

Postby Hooloovoo » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:06 pm » Safari 5.0.6 Safari 5.0.6  Mac OS X Mac OS X  Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 1280 x 800

Pixel8r » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:54 pm wrote:

There is also lots of evidence of Ukraine deploying BUK the day ahead of the disaster. All I am trying to do is keep an open mind and not jump to any conclusions, as the western controlled media has done.


It is not in anybodies interest to jump to conclusion.
Russians approval of USA just reached an all time low of 4%.
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