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Re: Independence

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:20 pm
by wee Jinky
There has to be another vote on europe Wp
We are in the eu atm , independence takes us out
we need to have a democratic vote to go back in.
I will be against that as well .
One step at a time

Re: Independence

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:23 pm
by warpig
Northern Ireland doesn't want independence AFAIK. Have I got that wrong?

[quote="warpig » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:40 pm"]It's interesting you didn't mention the Welsh or the Irish.

If you hadn't noticed the Irish have been fighting for independence on and off for 700 years... :eh:

Re: Independence

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:25 pm
by warpig
You might be against it, but it won't stop Salmond's economic master plan... I can almost hear the slogan now... We're "Better Together..." :naughty:

wee Jinky » 16 Sep 2014 00:20 wrote:There has to be another vote on europe Wp
We are in the eu atm , independence takes us out
we need to have a democratic vote to go back in.
I will be against that as well .
One step at a time

Re: Independence

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:20 am
by Laura
Salmond's only economic master plan is the standard one: Obey your masters in order to fill your pockets.
He is doing very well, turning a degree of (despicable) order into tribal chaos without upsetting the status quo of land possession and bankster control.

warpig » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:25 am wrote:You might be against it, but it won't stop Salmond's economic master plan... I can almost hear the slogan now... We're "Better Together..." :naughty:

wee Jinky » 16 Sep 2014 00:20 wrote:There has to be another vote on europe Wp
We are in the eu atm , independence takes us out
we need to have a democratic vote to go back in.
I will be against that as well .
One step at a time

Re: Independence

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:30 am
by warpig
Everyone with a vested interest in the referendum should read this article.

It was within a public meeting that I realised there was no absolutely no debate within the Yes camp. Zero debate – the focus was instead on attacking the enemy and creating an impenetrable shell to protect the unquestionable entity. In its place was a kind of shopping list of desires that was being added to daily. So there was: Get rid of Trident, raise the minimum wage, lower corporation tax, promote gay and lesbian rights, create a world leading Green economy, exploit oil to the full and become a world leading petro-chemical economy, nationalise the banks, nationalise BP, be more attractive to foreign investment. The shopping list of ‘positive’ ideal goals could never tally up, the desires of the Yessers were incompatible and contradicted each other, but to raise this was seen as being ‘negative’. Every kind of Yes had to be included, and this meant there could be no debate. Instead there was a kind of self-censorship and conformism. The Yes camp had turned itself into a recruitment machine which had to silence dissent and differences between the many clashing interest groups under its banner. This was what YES had started to mean – it meant YES to everything – everything is possible – so don’t question anything. You couldn’t talk about what would happen after the referendum because then all the conflicts between all the different desires and factions would emerge. Questioning even triggered a self-policing process – The Yes Thought Police – rather like the Calvinist one in which doubters started to hate themselves and became fearful of showing signs of their inner torment. I have witnessed some of the greatest minds within Scotland go through this process, one week they are vocally discussing complex issues of global capitalism and the next they’re posting ‘selfies’ of teenagers waving flags and photos of cute puppy dogs carrying Yes signs in their mouths. The conformist dumbing down has been acute and noted by those outside Scotland who wondered where all the intellectuals went.


So why do we need to leave the union to engage in this painful process we call democracy?


I left the Yes camp and joined the No camp not because I like the UK or think the status quo works well as it is. No. I think things are as complicated and compromised as they always are and that we live in trying times. The Yes camp understand that and so have created an illusion of a free space in which everything you’ve ever wanted can come to pass – overnight. How can it? There are exactly the same political conflicts within the factions of Yes as there are within the UK.


http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/201 ... nged-to-no